Replaced INNPM12 with INNPM01 (Legacy DCS Symphony Harmony INFI 90 System)

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Not a lot of information to go assist you with this, please ass info about;

Error codes (both NIS and NPM)
Firmware revisions (both NIS and NPM)

Have you tested with other NPM12 modules to eliminate te possibility that you have an defective NPM12 module?

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hpg Rank: 79

Answered 7 months ago

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Here is the attached image of module. In which error code appear. On NIS it shows 2,3&5 LED is on and On NPM 2&5 LED is on.

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jabbi_king Rank: 568

Answered 7 months ago

2

I would strongly recommend you to consult the user manuals first, then post on the forum if that does not help you.

Based on your photo I find the following errors in the user manual;
NIS01 error code: Loopback test failure
NPM12 error code: NIS handshake failure

From this it is my understanding is that the NPM12 cant communicate with the NIS01, this due to the NIS01 has failed since it cannot connect to the coax loop;

Check check the module power at the MMU backplane and check the I/O power on the termination unit/module. Replace the cable to the LIS/NIS/ICLor the termination device itself. If the problem still exists replace the LIS/NIS/ICL

Could it be that you have swapped the NIS/NPM rack positions during the upgrade or not inserted the NIS01 module properly?

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by hpg Rank: 79 on 4/17/2020 11:20:25 AM | Like (0) | Report

Firmware no issues.

Does reinstalling the original NPM01 bring the node online again?
If not could it be that the NIS01 cable is not inserted properly? Or the NIS01 is defective?

Have you checked the other items I have listed?
If all of them is unsuccessfully I would recommend you to consult your local ABB department and get a service engineer on site.

by jabbi_king Rank: 568 on 4/17/2020 11:32:01 AM | Like (0) | Report

Original NPM01 insert back and node online again successfully.

by hpg Rank: 79 on 4/17/2020 12:09:42 PM | Like (0) | Report

okey, then it a bit strange I have to agree. send photos of DIP switch setting of NPM12.
And try with another NPM12 module.

by jabbi_king Rank: 568 on 4/17/2020 12:35:59 PM | Like (0) | Report

My question is that, can we used NPM12 for the replacement of NPM01., any criteria for this replacement?

by hpg Rank: 79 on 4/17/2020 1:32:01 PM | Like (0) | Report

Yes, the WBPEEUI250022A0 user manual is specifically for "Cnet-to-HCU Communication Interface INNIS01/INNPM12", so should be plug and play.

There could be some firmware dependency, but since all the modules are obsolete I cant find the release notes on myportal.abb.com, but I know we have run this combination before (though with FW rev F_2 and higher).

Good luck

by Alan Rank: 18 on 4/18/2020 12:06:55 AM | Like (0) | Report

Hi,
The NPM12 is definitely a plug-in replacement for the NPM01/11 but it does have some additional features that are enabled through the unused NPM01/11 dipswitch poles on SW3 and SW4. As long as the NPM01 dispwitches were set as per the NPM01 manual the NPM12 will behave in a similar manner. The way the earlier firmware may have handled unused switches set to positions other than specified in the manual is not always consistent so confirm the following switches are set correctly for the NPM12.
SW3 - Pole 2 was unused with the NPM01/11 but is now used for Plantloop mode. Make sure this is set to 0 otherwise the NPM will try and startup in Plantloop mode.
SW3 - Pole 4/5 was unused with the NPM01/11 but is now used for diagnostic port baud rate. This shouldn't matter but 00 is the default.
SW3 - Pole 6/7 was unused with the NPM01/11 and should be set to 00. Some NPM12 documentation identifies these switches as unused and other documentation identifies these poles as poll rate multipliers. Setting poles 6/7 to 00 either sets the poles to the default unused position or sets the poll rate multiplier to (x1) to avoid changing the exception reporting characteristics of the node.
SW4 - Pole 8 was unused with the NPM01/11 but is now used for the XR timestamp filter. This was introduced in E5 and the default position of 0 or "on" enables the filter.

It might not also hurt to exercise the switches to make sure that they have switched correctly. Usually only an issue with older modules that have seen a lot of service in a test rig or a poor environment.

Regarding firmware compatibility with the NIS. The minimum required NIS revision for NPM F1 is E0. You are running E6 (E16) so this is not an issue.

Good luck,
Alan

by jabbi_king Rank: 568 on 4/18/2020 5:58:19 PM | Like (0) | Report

Can u send any link for compatibility of firmware revision of Nis with NPm

by jabbi_king Rank: 568 on 4/18/2020 8:36:24 PM | Like (0) | Report

Hi hpg,
I have NIS fw D13 and NPM12. Is that acceptable?

by hpg Rank: 79 on 4/19/2020 12:51:12 AM | Like (0) | Report

Not according to what Alan wrote, then you should have minimum E0.

D3 is extremely old, are you sure about this?
Both of your photo shows firmware E6, how come your stating is D3 now?

by jabbi_king Rank: 568 on 4/19/2020 1:16:19 AM | Like (0) | Report

Actually i have both new cards(NIS"E6" & NPM12) But old setup is ( NIS"D3" & NPM01), we want to change both cards with newer one.

by Alan Rank: 18 on 4/19/2020 2:05:08 AM | Like (0) | Report

Hi,
Responding to "jabbi_king Rank: 584 on 4/18/2020 5:58:19 PM"
The release documents for firmware are are normally in the ABB Library but for firmware of this age it looks as though they are no longer available, at least for customers. You could try your local ABB office and see if they can supply the release note documentation. I can tell you that for modules that still support the LIS01/NIS01 the minimum quoted compatible LIS01/NIS01 firmware release is generally E6.

Responding to " jabbi_king Rank: 584 on 4/18/2020 8:36:24 PM"
Regarding LIS01/NIS01 firmrware revision D13 (D3).
LIS01/NIS01 firmware revision D13 (D3, released 1991) is not generally suitable for the NPM01/NPM011/NPM12 or practically any other master module purchased in the last 25 years or so (NPM01/NPM11/IIT03/ICT01/ICT03). NIS revision E16 (E6, released 1996) is pretty much the baseline firmware for the LIS01/NIS01. The LIS01/NIS01 revision E6 will work with the older LIS01/NIS01 firmware but E6 addresses various defects present in the older revisions. It's stability is demonstrated by the fact that from the E6 release in 1996 to the INNIS21 release in 2004 there were only 2 minor updates, E7 for use with IIT03 revision A3, and F1 to correct a problem with revision E7.
Additionally, if you have a LIS/NIS with D3 firmware there are possibly additional hardware modifications required to the module PCB. Off the top of my head prior to E6 firmware there were modifications to the LIS/NIS receiver circuits that required PCB modifications and removal of decoupling capacitors mounted in the ROM socket and there may have been more but it was at least 25 years ago.

Regards,

Alan

by Alan Rank: 18 on 4/19/2020 3:05:06 AM | Like (0) | Report

Responding to "jabbi_king Rank: 584 on 4/19/2020 1:16:19 AM"
Hi,
Getting the older firmware out of the system sounds like a good idea. It also sounds like, if you haven't done one already, an audit of module firmware revisions would be a good starting point to establish exactly where your system is, firmware-wise. It also sounds like you might have some / a lot of older firmware that is no longer recommended or compatible, however your firmware has been like this for 20 years+ and the plant still works so I am not suggesting that you replace everything with the latest. Probably a case of identifying what firmware you have installed in the system and spares and then determining what is the minimum spend to achieve a practical level of firmware consistency and compatibility.
Another thing to look at is problems you have that you can find a fix for with firmware. For example, maybe there are problems with online changes to redundant MFPs. This could be a documented firmware issue and upgrading to a later revision might resolve this problem.
From memory you have 800xa, yes? If so, you can use the node topology aspect of a Modsta tag to collect module firmware revisions for all of the modules in a node and then the Communication Module and NIS Details aspect to collect the NIS firmware revisions. No need to pull any modules out.

Regards,

Alan

by jabbi_king Rank: 568 on 4/19/2020 3:12:24 AM | Like (0) | Report

Dear alan,
It means i can't plug out my older NIS "D13" and Plug in the NIS "E16" and system work perfectly because of mismatch fw?

by Alan Rank: 18 on 4/19/2020 4:55:13 AM | Like (0) | Report

Hi,
This is pasted from the comment to your photo of the NPM01.
Time for a disclaimer along the lines of "comments are provided as general information only and are based on the information provided". NPM revision B0 firmware is very old and predates the NIS01 E6 firmware by 5 years or so but NIS01 firmware E6 is documented as "compatible with all previous released versions of the INNIS01 in terms of loop communications and host module redundancy" which can be read as, yes E6 should work with a B0 NPM and other D3 NIS modules on the loop.

Regards,
Alan

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hpg Rank: 79

Answered 7 months ago

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Where is firmware revision mentioned?

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jabbi_king Rank: 568

Answered 7 months ago

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Currently we have used these NIS & NPM01 cards and everything is ok. Now in this setup if i only interchange NIS card with new fw NIS(E6). Is that acceptable??

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by Alan Rank: 18 on 4/19/2020 3:13:07 AM | Like (0) | Report

Hi,
What is the NPM01 revision? I don't think it will matter as NIS revision E6 is compatible with with earlier versions of NIS firmware but it would not hurt to check.
Regards,
Alan

by jabbi_king Rank: 568 on 4/20/2020 12:04:34 AM | Like (0) | Report

NPM01 Rev. B0 & NIS01 Rev. E6

by Alan Rank: 18 on 4/20/2020 3:37:17 AM | Like (0) | Report

Hi,
Can you post the results of your work? I.E. which NIS firmware works with which NPM firmware. It would be good to wrap up the 35 or so comments and answers with an answer that summarises what was found.
BR,
Alan

by jabbi_king Rank: 568 on 4/20/2020 5:29:59 AM | Like (0) | Report

Dear alan,
NIS rev D3 works with NPM rev B0
NIS rev D3 doesn't works with NPM12
NIS rev E6 doesn't works with NPM rev B0
NIS rev E6 doesn't work with NPM12, NICL and IMMFP02 setup

by Alan Rank: 18 on 4/20/2020 7:19:54 AM | Like (0) | Report

Hi,
I realise that this doesn't help but NIS rev E6 does work with the NPM12. The E6 NIS is compatible with NPM12 revision F0 through to the NPM12 final revision of F8 (actually NIS E0 or greater are compatible but E6 is by far the most stable revision). I am not sure what else to suggest, maybe the E6 NIS and / or NPM12 are faulty.

One last thing. Looking at the picture of the NPM01
SW4-Pole2 - Power System Status Failover is enabled. The INNPM12 manual indicates this should always be set to "on" or 0.
SW4-Pole4 - Remote diagnostics is enabled. Usually only required by ABB service personnel with special diagnostic tools. You could try disabling this, st to "on" or 0. It will not affect the diagnostics that normally access via Composer or your HMI.

Another potential issue for your site will at some stage be using controllers that are revision F0 or later with NPMs that revision D3 or older. These controllers require that the NPM firmware must be at revision E0 or later otherwise exception reporting to and from the controller will not work.
As mentioned previously an audit of the system firmware revisions would be a useful exercise to establish what firmware needs to be upgraded and to what level. If you have an 800xA HMI you can use the Modsta tag node topology aspect to collect module firmware revisions for all of the modules in a node and then the Communication Module and NIS Details aspect to collect the NIS firmware revisions. No need to pull any modules out.

BR,
Alan

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jabbi_king Rank: 568

Answered 7 months ago

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This is currently used NPM don't know its fw.

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by Alan Rank: 18 on 4/19/2020 4:52:53 AM | Like (0) | Report

Hi,
The IC in XU28 (center top) is the firmware ROM IC. The NPM firmware revision is B0. The "1" in the B10 label refers to the number of ROM in the firmware set. It makes more sense when the firmware has more than ROM IC. I.E. Take a look at a MFP, for example the ROMs are labelled "G18" and "G28" for firmware revision G8.
Time for a disclaimer along the lines of "comments are provided as general information only and are based on the information provided". NPM revision B0 firmware is very old and predates the NIS01 E6 firmware by 5 years or so but NIS01 firmware E6 is documented as "compatible with all previous released versions of the INNIS01 in terms of loop communications and host module redundancy" which can be read as, yes E6 should work with a B0 NPM and other D3 NIS modules on the loop.

Regards,
Alan

by jabbi_king Rank: 568 on 4/19/2020 5:10:41 AM | Like (0) | Report

Dear alan,
If i replaced NIS D3 with NIS E6, Any special operation or any dip switching settings required or just same as old one

by Alan Rank: 18 on 4/19/2020 5:50:54 AM | Like (0) | Report

Hi,
All of the NIS jumper and switch configurations are the same for revisions D3 and E6.
The NIS has no special operations to worry about.
Good luck,
Alan

by Alan Rank: 18 on 4/19/2020 6:00:39 AM | Like (0) | Report

Hi,
Just to clarify, did you initially try to use a INNPM12 with a revision D3 NIS01? This might explain why the NIS faulted, as there were changes to the loop back test between D3 and E6.
BR,
Alan

by jabbi_king Rank: 568 on 4/19/2020 6:07:05 AM | Like (0) | Report

Yes i try INNPM12 with D3 NIS but it doesn't work.

by Alan Rank: 18 on 4/19/2020 6:14:46 AM | Like (0) | Report

OK, that probably explains things. The minimum NIS firmware for use with the NPM12 is E0.
BR,
Alan

by Alan Rank: 18 on 4/19/2020 6:15:57 AM | Like (0) | Report

So if you use an E6 NIS with the NPM12 it should work.

by jabbi_king Rank: 568 on 4/19/2020 6:37:24 AM | Like (0) | Report

With NICL or NTCL? Currently i am using NICL01

by Alan Rank: 18 on 4/19/2020 6:44:22 AM | Like (0) | Report

It doesn't matter.

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jabbi_king Rank: 568

Answered 7 months ago

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Replaced INNPM12 with INNPM01

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