AC450 to 800xA upgrade
Hi,
Does any one did a study to identify the best suited library for an upgrade from AC450 to 800xA ?
My minimum requirement is similar look and feel in graphical element level and similar functionalities in control level.
Is it possible to upgrade using basic libraries like ProcessObjExtLib and ControlstandardLib ? I prefer to create minimum customized function blocks.
Which is the best programming window for an AC450 upgrade(CMD/FBD/Diagram editor) ?
Any suggestions are appreciable.
I know about Pulp & Paper library, PC Device library and Reuse library. Looking for any other suggestion for AC450 upgrade.
Does any one did a study to identify the best suited library for an upgrade from AC450 to 800xA ?
My minimum requirement is similar look and feel in graphical element level and similar functionalities in control level.
Is it possible to upgrade using basic libraries like ProcessObjExtLib and ControlstandardLib ? I prefer to create minimum customized function blocks.
Which is the best programming window for an AC450 upgrade(CMD/FBD/Diagram editor) ?
Any suggestions are appreciable.
I know about Pulp & Paper library, PC Device library and Reuse library. Looking for any other suggestion for AC450 upgrade.
Asked 1 year ago
Answers
0
hi,
you want to use the latest library (for your industry as mentioned in the comments). I will be doing a full AC450 conversion to the latest version of 800xA in the coming year or two.
I would re-think that you don't want to build customized blocks - this is what 800xA is all about.
Your choice of programming window depends on what your programmers are used to - the FBD is likely the easiest coming from an AC450. However you will find that when you want to perform complex maths its quicker to use text.
In the paper industry - the 800xA library graphics are similar to the AC450 - its not a big leap for the operations staff.
Dont be scared of change.
you want to use the latest library (for your industry as mentioned in the comments). I will be doing a full AC450 conversion to the latest version of 800xA in the coming year or two.
I would re-think that you don't want to build customized blocks - this is what 800xA is all about.
Your choice of programming window depends on what your programmers are used to - the FBD is likely the easiest coming from an AC450. However you will find that when you want to perform complex maths its quicker to use text.
In the paper industry - the 800xA library graphics are similar to the AC450 - its not a big leap for the operations staff.
Dont be scared of change.
Answered 1 year ago
1
Hi,
In general I agree with CarlosQ that library selection for AC450 migration depends on the particular industry.
For example Pulp&Paper library is useless for RMC application like Pilot&Reference generator at Steel production line.
However you should consider also other criteria.
For example what are the expectations of your customer? Whether they want to reuse existing logic with similar look&feel ?
Likely yes, perhaps with some extensions to the existing logic.
Other concern is how many working hours is you customer willing to pay for AC450 migration?
Depends on your experience, the estimated number of working hours could be easily underestimated. Because AC450 code can be written in tricky way like using DB hidden terminals extensively. The devil is in the detail here. Especially pay attention to sequences part. From my experience after several AC450 migrations, the best way is to use library, which is the closest possible match to AC450 functionality in synergy with automatic code conversion.
The idea is very simple. The goal is to avoid as much human mistakes as possible allowing you to go for commissioning with no need to test converted AC450 logic at your testfield.
I think Pulp&Paper lib is a good choice however it has some shortcomings. Basically you should be very familiar with both AC450 and the new 800xA library to pass AC450 upgradation project within the planned timeline.
If you have one day free, give a try to my conversion tool Ampl2m which is working reliably with using PP Lib and also with standard AC800M libraries.
Regarding programming language, FBD is the closest match to AC450 way of programming. Anyway CBM Diagrams are recommended for the new AC800M installations.
There are some obstacles with using Diagrams for AC450 conversion like missing global variables must be replaced by Communication variables.
In general I agree with CarlosQ that library selection for AC450 migration depends on the particular industry.
For example Pulp&Paper library is useless for RMC application like Pilot&Reference generator at Steel production line.
However you should consider also other criteria.
For example what are the expectations of your customer? Whether they want to reuse existing logic with similar look&feel ?
Likely yes, perhaps with some extensions to the existing logic.
Other concern is how many working hours is you customer willing to pay for AC450 migration?
Depends on your experience, the estimated number of working hours could be easily underestimated. Because AC450 code can be written in tricky way like using DB hidden terminals extensively. The devil is in the detail here. Especially pay attention to sequences part. From my experience after several AC450 migrations, the best way is to use library, which is the closest possible match to AC450 functionality in synergy with automatic code conversion.
The idea is very simple. The goal is to avoid as much human mistakes as possible allowing you to go for commissioning with no need to test converted AC450 logic at your testfield.
I think Pulp&Paper lib is a good choice however it has some shortcomings. Basically you should be very familiar with both AC450 and the new 800xA library to pass AC450 upgradation project within the planned timeline.
If you have one day free, give a try to my conversion tool Ampl2m which is working reliably with using PP Lib and also with standard AC800M libraries.
Regarding programming language, FBD is the closest match to AC450 way of programming. Anyway CBM Diagrams are recommended for the new AC800M installations.
There are some obstacles with using Diagrams for AC450 conversion like missing global variables must be replaced by Communication variables.
Answered 1 year ago
0
" > Industry is Marine."
Ahh, Right. Good luck with that. Is this a full upgrade of a ships automation system ?
Marine Applications have a whole bunch of "specials" in the Advant display elements. Pretty much every display element on the MP200 / AC450 control environment has been modified from the standard Advant Master symbols. This means that neither the P&P Library nor the Re-use library are an exact match for an upgrade from Advant Master to AC800M Controllers.
I don't believe ABB Marine have developed a full upgrade path from AC450 to AC800M. ( The AC800M marine applications that I've seen running on AC800M controllers are markedly different from the older Advant Based Control Systems ) However, the Re-use library is possibly the closest match for this particular kind of upgrade. You will likely still have to make some very significant modifications to the Re-Use library graphic elements.
Be aware that older ABB Marine systems make very extensive use of sequences for the Power Management Systems. Kamil Herman has done excellent work on creating a code conversion tool, but it does have limitations on what can be converted.
Have you considered the impact on Lloyd's certification of the vessel following the Automation System changeover ? A Marine application is very definitely not a paper mill.
Contact me off forum if you want to discus project details in a non public setting.
Ahh, Right. Good luck with that. Is this a full upgrade of a ships automation system ?
Marine Applications have a whole bunch of "specials" in the Advant display elements. Pretty much every display element on the MP200 / AC450 control environment has been modified from the standard Advant Master symbols. This means that neither the P&P Library nor the Re-use library are an exact match for an upgrade from Advant Master to AC800M Controllers.
I don't believe ABB Marine have developed a full upgrade path from AC450 to AC800M. ( The AC800M marine applications that I've seen running on AC800M controllers are markedly different from the older Advant Based Control Systems ) However, the Re-use library is possibly the closest match for this particular kind of upgrade. You will likely still have to make some very significant modifications to the Re-Use library graphic elements.
Be aware that older ABB Marine systems make very extensive use of sequences for the Power Management Systems. Kamil Herman has done excellent work on creating a code conversion tool, but it does have limitations on what can be converted.
Have you considered the impact on Lloyd's certification of the vessel following the Automation System changeover ? A Marine application is very definitely not a paper mill.
Contact me off forum if you want to discus project details in a non public setting.
Answered 1 year ago
by CarlosQ Rank: 179 on 4/14/2020 8:36:23 AM | Like (0) | Report
Hi.
It's very important to know the kind of the industry where the Master System, AC450, is currently installed. There are very different libraries for 800xA, and them are dependents of the industry's application, so as, Power Generation, Oil&Gas, P&P, Metal, Cement, Mineral, etc.. so, for any advice about it you should be indicate the industry kind.
Regards
by Joby Sebastain Rank: 142 on 4/15/2020 5:27:17 AM | Like (0) | Report
Marine Industry.
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