FC-161 Sequence Generator for Infi 90

Hi Ingo , thanks for your response , I have another additional questions to clarify :an example ,

if we have step 1 , step 4 and step 5 all of them step timer 15 secs and we have just one trigger transition from 0 to 1 ,
the sequence would do as follow:
do step 1 ( 15 secs and output 1 according to the mask ) then
( step 2,3 nothing because the step timer is 0 secs) then
execute step 4 ( 15 secs and output1 according to the mask ) then
step 5 ( 15 secs output1 according to the mask ) then
step 6, 7 ,8 nothing because step timer is 0 secs , and finish the sequence ,
and it would wait another trigger condition to do again , Is that correct?

Thanks for your support

Regards

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ricardo.marrero.a Rank: 184

Asked 2 months ago

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The steps with 0 seconds will still output whatever mask is defined for those steps; I don't believe those steps get ignored.

When the sequencer gets to step 8, we typically have logic outside the sequencer block to jump the block back to step 1.

Related note: I don't know what kind of processors you're using, but if you have MFPs rev F firmware or older, an online configuration will reset the current step timer back to the beginning.

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pmac Rank: 188

Answered 2 months ago

Hi. Not quite. If the timer is 0 sec, then you will need a trigger to go to the next step. 0 here does not mean 'skip' just 'don't run a timer and wait for trigger'. If you have to skip steps you can use an Adapt block and jump step triggers to skips steps to specific step # based on other conditions outside FC161.

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Ingo

Rank: 34

Answered 2 months ago

Hi,
I think the answer to your question about how the sequence works lies in your comment “just some logic connected to trigger pin , jump pin , jump step number pin“. On its own, the FC161 is a fairly straightforward block and the real “smarts” lie in how the external logic interfaces with the block. To clarify a couple of things…

Following on from Ingo and pmac, the step timer being disabled (set to 0) means that the step transition is only event based (step or jump trigger) and the sequencer is waiting for external trigger to move the sequence on from that step. The only way for steps 2, 3 and 6, 7 and 8 can transition is from external step triggers. Note that a jump trigger and a calculated jump step# could be skipping these steps by jumping from 1 to 4 to 5 and then to 0 but the jump would have to occur before the step timer expired.

The sequence does not finish automatically. The sequence does not move past the last step of sequencer or sequencer chain (step 8 in this case) on it’s own. External logic must be used to reset the sequence to step 0 (Disable Mask) or a jump trigger to step x (step x mask). Any other attempt to move past the end of the sequencer results in a disable mask output.

Note that a sequence does not have to go to that last available sequencer step. It would be ok in this case if step 5 was the last step that did something, to go to step 6 and end the sequence with a jump or reset.

Your sequence works as follows

Step 0 – Jump or Step trigger and output the Disable Mask

Step 1 – Jump or Step trigger or 15 seconds and output the Step 1 Mask

Step 2 – Jump or Step trigger and output the Step 2 Mask

Step 3 – Jump or Step trigger and output the Step 3 Mask

Step 4 – Jump or Step trigger or 15 seconds and output the Step 4 mask

Step 5 – Jump or Step trigger or 15 seconds and output the Step 5 Mask

Step 6 – Jump or Step trigger and output the Step 6 Mask

Step 7 – Jump or Step trigger and output the Step 7 Mask

Step 8 – Jump or Step trigger and output the Step 8 Mask

Step>8 – n/a and output the Disable Mask

As pmac indicated it is probably good practice to have explicit logic to do things like end the sequence. I.E. If Step = 6 then wait 2 seconds and jump to step 1, or If step = 6 then reset sequence to step 0. Note that step 0 is a reserved step for other batch function codes (E-Stop state) and one practice is to use step 1 as an idle step (waiting for sequence start) and keep step 0 for when things go wrong or a safe state is required.

Cheers,
Alan

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by ricardo.marrero.a Rank: 184 on 1/28/2020 3:54:50 PM | Like (0) | Report

Hi Alan , thanks for your response , customer has a RNG function block( some OR , AND conditions ) connected to trigger pin , one specific function block connected to jump pin, RNG block ( some OR ,AND conditions) connected to reset conditions .
if the sequencer is at step 8 and another transition trigger happen ( 0 to 1 transition) what happen with the sequencer in that moment, Is it reseted ?

Thanks for your support

Best Regards

by Alan Rank: 23 on 1/28/2020 4:47:41 PM | Like (0) | Report

Hi Ricardo,
The blocks connected to the sequencer tell the sequencer what to do and are really the "smarts" of the logic as they control how the sequencer behaves. The sequencer really only provides an output mask to match the step commanded by these external blocks. I.E. "If commanded step = x then set outputs to y for z seconds" and nothing more (if z =0 then stay in this step until commanded to do something else).
The only real exception is in the case that the sequencer step timer >0 and then the sequencer will advance without external control, but even then the external control can override the sequencer step timers.
I don't know if this means anything to you but an old-school analogy of FC161 would be of the electro-mechanical cam timer (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cam_timer) or drum sequencer that just rotates according to external control signals making and breaking switches as it goes.

To answer your question...
If the sequencer is at step 8 and a step trigger is issued it will stay at step 8 but with a disable mask output.
If the sequencer is at step 8 and a jump trigger is issued to a step > 8 (> sequencer last step) it will stay at step 8 but with a disable mask output.
If the sequencer is at step 8 and a jump trigger is issued to a step <= 8 (<= sequencer last step) it will jump to the nominated step with the appropriate mask output.

Cheers,
Alan

by ricardo.marrero.a Rank: 184 on 1/28/2020 5:48:01 PM | Like (0) | Report

Thanks you Alan for the explanation

Best Regards

Ricardo

by ricardo.marrero.a Rank: 184 on 2/1/2020 8:44:27 AM | Like (0) | Report

Hi Alan , when you mention " but even then the external control can override the sequencer step timers." if we are on step1 time base , for example 60 secs and at 25 secs , we got a new transition from trigger , the sequencer goes to step 2 without finishing stpep 1 , Is that correct?

Thanks for your support

Regards

by Alan Rank: 23 on 2/2/2020 1:16:20 AM | Like (0) | Report

Hi Ricardo,
Yes, if the sequencer is running a timed step, any of the following will end the current step before the timer expires...
a.) The step trigger rising edge will advance to the next step, OR
b.) The jump trigger rising edge will advance to the step set by the jump step, OR
c.) The reset rising edge will advance to step 0.

Best of luck,
Alan

by ricardo.marrero.a Rank: 184 on 2/9/2020 7:03:03 PM | Like (0) | Report

Hi Alan , thanks for your response , if you can support to us in the following question to clarify two more things , customer has configured the sequencer and the mask is as follow
step1 mask 128 , step timer 0 , step 2 mask 64 step timer 0 , step 3 mask 32 step timer 60 secs , and it has configured condition for jump and jump# to step 8 ( step timer 0 secs) the mask for this step is 48.
when we start the sequencer , first transition from 0 to 1 ( trigger) it goes to step1 and output 1 , then another transition from 0 to 1 goes to step2 and output 1 , then another transition from 0 to 1 goes to step 3 and wait 30 secs output 1 , and to go to next step it would require others transtions to go to next steps. Is that correct?
There is a jump condition and it jumps to step 8 the mask for this is 48 , but 48 is 110000, thinking about the masks it would be 1 for step 4 and step 3 . if the mask for step 8 would be 1 we could think , it put output 1 at step 8 if jump condition transition 0 to 1 is in effect , but in this mask configuration ( 48 ) it would do nothing , Is that correct?
Also if we have 0 in mask and step timer 0 , the step would be executed but it put output 0 , Is that correct?

Thanks for you support

Regards

by Alan Rank: 23 on 2/9/2020 11:19:29 PM | Like (0) | Report

Hi Ricardo,
I think this is another way of describing what your customer has configured. I can't post a comment in fixed pitch font so maybe cut and paste into notepad if its too distorted.

Output Mask (Output 1 is block N)
Output - 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8
Step 0 - ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? - Step Trig
Step 1 - 1 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 - Step Trig
Step 2 - 0 1 0 0 0 0 0 0 - Step Trig
Step 3 - 0 0 1 0 0 0 0 0 - 60s or Jump Trig
Step 4 - ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?
Step 5 -
Step 6 -
Step 7 -
Step 8 - 0 0 1 1 0 0 0 0 - Step Trig

Transition Logic.
Step 0 - Activate output ???? until step trigger received and then move to step 1.
Step 1 - Activate output N until step trigger received and then move to step 2.
Step 2 - Activate output N+1 until step trigger received and then move to step 3.
Step 3 - Activate output N+2 for 60s and move to step 4 or if jump trigger received jump trigger to step 8 immediately.
Step 4 - ???
Step 5 -
Step 6 -
Step 7 -
Step 8 - Activate output N+2 and N+3 until trigger or reset received.

Note that step 3 requires the jump trigger to occur before the 60s timer expires. If the 60s timer expires before the jump trigger then the sequence will move to step 4 and then what happens??

As to why your observations do not match the configuration, maybe the disable trigger (S8) is always active and the disable mask (S9) is set to 1, that would explain why the output is always 1. The disable trigger only disables step timers not step/jump triggers. As to why the step 3 time is 30s and not 60s, maybe the jump trigger operates after 30 seconds.

I don't quite grasp the second to last paragraph of your comment. Just to clarify though, there does not have to be any relationship at all between the sequence step number and the output mask in the FC-161. The output mask is simply whatever pattern that is required to activate the required outputs for the particular step of the sequence. If the logic uses the output mask to control the sequence, maybe another solution would be to use the FC-161 current step output and connect this to a RDEMUX to provide active step logic.

Finally, yes a 0(00000000) in the step mask is valid. A 0 (disabled) in the step timer is also valid. A step with a mask of 00000000 and a disabled step timer will turn off all outputs indefinitely, until a step/jump trigger or reset occurs. This can be quote normal during a sequence, it all depends on what the outputs are supposed to do for that step.

Cheers,
Alan

by ricardo.marrero.a Rank: 184 on 2/10/2020 8:30:39 AM | Like (0) | Report

Hi Alan , thanks for your response , regarding to " I don't quite grasp the second to last paragraph of your comment." , you have explained very well about our concern , step 8 coming from jump condition and it has mask 48 00110000 , it activate the output ( 1 ) from N+2 ( step3 ) and N+3( step4) and when it receives new trigger it goes to N+4 , excuse me in step 3 that I mentioned before timer step is configured 60 secs

Thanks for your support

Best Regards

by ricardo.marrero.a Rank: 184 on 2/10/2020 8:44:38 AM | Like (0) | Report

Hi Alan , also this sequencer only has step1 , 2 , 3, ,4 are connected to do action ( database ( to start pump or using for logics) others steps 5 - 8 are not connected to db element

Regards

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Alan Rank: 23

Answered 2 months ago

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FC-161 Sequence Generator for Infi 90

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