CI855 as Clock Master on MB300

Hello.
I have time sync issues.

My system (how I want it):
Controller 1, PM891:
- receives time from SNTP
- sends CNCP-time as CNCP-master 1
- CI855 as MB300 ClockMaster on MB300-net 12

Controller 2, PM864:
- receives CNCP (CNCP-master 0)
- CI855 as MB300 ClockMaster on MB300-net 12

Controller 3, PM866:
- receives CNCP (CNCP-master 0)
- no CI855

Controller 4, PM891:
- receives time from SNTP
- sends CNCP-time as CNCP-master 2
- CI855 as MB300 ClockMaster on MB300-net 11

800xA system 1:
- combined AS/CS
- AC800Connect
- AC400Connect
- RTA CLS1-setting 0,2,0
- Reverse_sync_mode = false
- two AC450, both CLS1-setting 0,2,0

800xA system 2:
- two AS + two CS + IM
- AC800Connect
- AC400Connect
- RTA CLS1-setting 0,2,0
- Reverse_sync_mode = false
- three AC450, all with CLS1-setting 0,2,0

The two 800xA systems are independent from each other.
One Control network for all CS/AC800M in both systems.
One ClientServer network for all AS/CS/Clients in both systems.

MB300 nets 11 and 12 is totally separated.

800xA system 1 works. Time diff between PC:s is < 20ms, and AC800M seems to have the correct time.but AC450 does not seem to receive the correct time.

800xA system 1 does NOT work. When I set CI855 on Controller 1 to be MB300 ClockMaster (on MB300-net 12), nothing happened. I could NOT see that AC450 adopted correct time.

When I set CI855 on Controller 2 to be (second) MB300 ClockMaster, all AC450 (on MB300-net 12) got their clocks set to 1985-07-08/19:49:XX!!!

Is it wrong to have two CI855 as masters on the same MB300?
Book (System 800xA NetworkConfiguration System Version 5.1 3BSE034463-510 E page 16+0) says "it is recommended to use a CI855 in AT LEAST ONE AC800M so that the time can be distributed from the Control Network to MB300 via CI855"

Why wont the AC450's get synced?

Anyone has a clue?

Thanks
/Martin

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martin Rank: 1983

Asked 1 month ago

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What is the CI855 setting made in Control Builder M?

With ”No sync” you could theoretically push a wrong time if you are able to startup the clock sync task (see next section)...

1. Use a valid sync direction setting (800M -> CI855) in CBM project
2. SLTARG to CI855 from CS node after DFTARG -1,-1 followed by TSESS, then CTRL-B
3. Check CI855 time with RDATIME. Abort if wrong and go back to step 1.
4. Check CLS1 (FINS 218,1 followed by GINS)
5. Check sync state with: LOCPSET CMDS:TP02.CT followed by LCLKP
6. If necessary, wake up master with RET CXAE000,10
7. Repeat step 5.
8. Check all other nodes with respect to steps 4 and 5. LOCPSET does not need to be repeated.

Two CI855 can have 1,2,1 setting per network. One will act master, the other backup. Do not issue step 6 in more than one node per network. KIT/ACT can be used to bring down an undesired master.

Be very observant on system messages, revert with full detail if you should see clock related messages.

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by martin Rank: 1983 on 7/18/2019 11:53:48 AM | Like (0) | Report

"Use a valid sync direction setting (800M -> CI855) in CBM project, "
I guess you mean in the CI855-editor in CBM, setting "Time sync". I want to set that one to "MB 300 Master" but that is when my problems occur! I'll test the things you wrote!

by martin Rank: 1983 on 7/18/2019 12:21:37 PM | Like (0) | Report

*rdatime
TARGET SYSTEM : DATE(YYYY-MM-DD) = 2019-07-18 TIME (HH:MM:SS) = 21:06:48
* / //this is the correct time! (same as in AC800M and CS)///

*fins 218,1
*gins /// connected to the CI855 that currently is set to "MB 300 MASTER"
1 = ARRAY : CLOCK_SYNCH
2 = BOOLEAN : TRUE /// Terminal: CLK_MAST
3 = I*1 : 2 /// Terminal: LOC_TIME
4 = I*1 : 3 /// Terminal CLK_SEND
5 = I*1 : 0 /// hidden terminal ?
*
I guess these values are OK.

by martin Rank: 1983 on 7/18/2019 12:29:00 PM | Like (0) | Report

when I connect to the CI855 wich is currently set to "AC800M Local":

*RDATIME
TARGET SYSTEM : DATE(YYYY-MM-DD) = 1985-07-09 TIME (HH:MM:SS) = 03:15:17 (!!!!)
*FINS 218,1
*gins
1 = ARRAY : CLOCK_SYNCH
2 = BOOLEAN : FALSE
3 = I*1 : 0
4 = I*1 : 0

by martin Rank: 1983 on 7/18/2019 12:47:45 PM | Like (0) | Report

connected to the CI855 that currently is set to "MB 300 MASTER":
*lclkp
Clock Synch Flags
-----------------
State = delayed_start

Is that OK?

by Stefan Stromqvist AKS expert

Rank: 1 on 7/18/2019 12:49:47 PM | Like (0) | Report

There is your problem! AC 800M Local = no connection (time wise) between CI855 and AC 800M. Enabling a clock master then would give a random time, why not 1985...

If AC 800M time shall be sent to AC450 via CI855, you must set "AC800M Master" (can't recall exact wording), THEN set CI855 to 1,2,1 (able to be master, listening for other time sets, able to send time).

MB300 Master = AC 800M slave to CI855 which is not what you want.

by martin Rank: 1983 on 7/18/2019 12:51:47 PM | Like (0) | Report

when I connect to the CI855 wich is currently set to "AC800M Local":
XKLIB *4.5/2
*lclkp
Clock Synch Flags
-----------------
State = dormant
Is this OK?

by martin Rank: 1983 on 7/18/2019 12:53:12 PM | Like (0) | Report

I think I will set the time manually on CI855 that has time 1985-xxx
Then it might be possible to bring it back as master.

by Stefan Stromqvist AKS expert

Rank: 1 on 7/18/2019 12:57:51 PM | Like (0) | Report

Do not use "AC 800M Local" if you intend to use CI855 in clock sync.

Dormant = clock sync task is not running and can be corrected with giving RET CXAE000,10. *BUT* there is no idea doing so as long as the CBM setting is "local" (=neutral gear).

by Stefan Stromqvist AKS expert

Rank: 1 on 7/18/2019 12:59:16 PM | Like (0) | Report

No need to set time manually in any MB300 node following your description; just select "AC 800M Master" and time will be transferred from AC 800M to CI855, ready to be pushed out on MB300 and your controllers.

by martin Rank: 1983 on 7/18/2019 1:06:28 PM | Like (0) | Report

when I connect to AC450 nod 6 and 7 and 8 i get:

*lclkp
Clock Synch Flags
-----------------
Time_is_received
Time_last_set_from_node 10
*
Same result from all AC450.
Node 10 is CI855 that now is set to "AC800M Local", and has time 1985-xxx!!!
Node 9 is the other CI855 that has the correct time.

by martin Rank: 1983 on 7/18/2019 1:11:05 PM | Like (0) | Report

So, conclusion of problem.
I have one CI855 that receives the correct time from AC800M, but is unable to set the time on MB300.
And I have another CI855 currently has time 1985-xxx and is fully capable to set time on MB300!🤣😂👍

by Stefan Stromqvist AKS expert

Rank: 1 on 7/18/2019 1:21:08 PM | Like (0) | Report

Don't use "AC800M Local"
Don't use "MB300 Master"

by martin Rank: 1983 on 7/18/2019 2:10:59 PM | Like (0) | Report

When I have CI855 as "AC800M Local", the CLS1 settings is set to 0,0,0.
Then If change CI855 setting to "MB 300 Master, and download AC800M, CLS settings will change to 1,2,3!

by martin Rank: 1983 on 7/18/2019 2:52:03 PM | Like (0) | Report

I set CI855 nod 9 to "AC800M Local". Downloaded. Checked CLS1, it was 0,0,0.
Changed to "MB 300 Master -> dowlload. CLS1, got changed to 1,2,3. So far so good.
LCLKP for CI855 says:

Clock Synch Flags
-----------------
This_is_the_clock_master_node

Good! Last time i checked, it was "Delayed start!"

LCLKP for AC450 nod 6:

*lclkp
Clock Synch Flags
-----------------
Synched_by_high_precision_time, iflag = 1
Time_last_set_from_node 9

Time seems to be correct. GOOD!!!
Same for AC450 nod 7 and 8! GOOOOD!!!

What does "State = delayed_start" actually mean?

by martin Rank: 1983 on 7/18/2019 2:57:15 PM | Like (0) | Report

So, now that I have established an actual master on MB300, I think I will try to set the second CI855 to "MB300Master" again...

by martin Rank: 1983 on 7/18/2019 3:18:22 PM | Like (0) | Report

So, I set CI855 nod 10 to "MB 300 Master" again. Since there already were a master on MB 300, it did not set the AC450 clocks. But...
Checking LCLKP for CI855 nod 10 gives:

Clock Synch Flags
-----------------
State = delayed_start

and time jumps between 1985 and 2019!
*RDATIME
TARGET SYSTEM : DATE(YYYY-MM-DD) = 1985-07-09 TIME (HH:MM:SS) = 10:34:24
*RDATIME
TARGET SYSTEM : DATE(YYYY-MM-DD) = 2019-07-19 TIME (HH:MM:SS) = 00:11:29
*RDATIME
TARGET SYSTEM : DATE(YYYY-MM-DD) = 2019-07-19 TIME (HH:MM:SS) = 00:11:29
*RDATIME
TARGET SYSTEM : DATE(YYYY-MM-DD) = 1985-07-09 TIME (HH:MM:SS) = 10:34:26
* *00:12:43 29 4 CXLT130 H'00000001
*RDATIME
TARGET SYSTEM : DATE(YYYY-MM-DD) = 1985-07-09 TIME (HH:MM:SS) = 10:38:52

And SecCS says "No sync pulse available" (come and went).

by Stefan Stromqvist AKS expert

Rank: 1 on 7/18/2019 3:28:23 PM | Like (0) | Report

I'm unable to verify any settings from where I am, I may be mistaken on the name of the CI855 settings, etc. In theory you have
a) NO sync
b) 800M>CI855
c) CI855>800M

Option b) would allow AC 800M to govern AC450 by having the CI855 as clock master on the MB300 segment.

I hope you get it to work... :-)

by martin Rank: 1983 on 7/18/2019 3:37:01 PM | Like (0) | Report

When I set second CI855 to be MB300 Master, I also had AC450 nod 8 as master (for safety).
I put this AC450 back to CLS1= 0,2,0. But both nod 8 and 9 says that 8 still is Backup_node. Strange.

CI855 nod 10 wich should become backup now still hasn't got correct time. Time is still jumping between 2019 and 1985. And, LCLKP says:

*lclkp
Clock Synch Flags
-----------------
This_is_the_clock_master_node
backup_node_is 8

xxxx !!! It's as if the two CI855 don't see each other!

by martin Rank: 1983 on 7/18/2019 3:43:02 PM | Like (0) | Report

The names of settings in CI855 is not the problem!
The problem is that one CI855 gets the time from the AC800M, and the other, with the same setting, does NOT! Or maybe it does, but something else is writing over it! One thing just hit me... Could it be another CI on the same CEX-bus also writing time to CI855??

by martin Rank: 1983 on 7/18/2019 3:48:08 PM | Like (0) | Report

Can another CI on the same CEX-bus send time to CI855?
The one that is OK:
PM864
- CI854
- CI854
- CI855

The one where time is over-written somehow:
PM891
- CI854 Profibus
- CI854
- CI854
- CI854
- CI873 EthernetIP
- CI855

by martin Rank: 1983 on 7/18/2019 4:30:39 PM | Like (0) | Report

Can't see any settings that could affect CI855 time. Both CI854 and CI873 are installed in the other system, and that works.

by Stefan Stromqvist AKS expert

Rank: 1 on 7/19/2019 12:28:54 AM | Like (0) | Report

File a proper support case and we’ll sort this out.

I checked the manual, the preferred CI855 setting is ”MB300 Master” (sorry for my desinformation earlier).

RET CXAE000,10 should make the target master (if CLS1 allow) and the rest should slave.

Also, you must let some time pass between the changes. The announcement of a backup may take as much as 30 minutes as the normal precision transmit interval is 10 minutes.

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Stefan Stromqvist AKS expert

Rank: 1

Answered 1 month ago

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Minor correction,
It should say: 800xA system 1 does NOT work.

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martin Rank: 1983

Answered 1 month ago

>"MB300 nets 11 and 12 is totally separated"

This is a problem. By Definition Net12 is the Redundant network for Net11. If this is a totally separate network it should be Net21. If the system time will not synch on Network 12 I'd be very suspicious that this is related.

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Rob Lyon Rank: 2

Answered 1 month ago

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CI855 as Clock Master on MB300

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